Monday, 18 June 2018

Week of: June 18-22

First - I hope that all of you wonderful father's out there that do so much to support and love your children felt that love returned tenfold on Sunday!  I was out hiking myself and saw a lot of father's day family hikes happening along the trail :)

Monday:
* If you haven't already done so, please return the year end swim consents to me right away*
- Social - data sheet assignment is tomorrow and needs to be ready to present in front of the class.  You can help out at home by being an audience for your child to practice their presentation tonight.

Tuesday: 
- Social - data sheet assignment is due
-Car building in the afternoon.  If you have a criminal record check complete, and you'd like to join us, please send me an email!

Wednesday:
- all swim forms are due returned

Thursday:
 - final night to study for the math final

Friday:
- Year end math final in the morning.  The format and length will be the same as on the practice final that was sent home a couple of weeks ago. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Finally - wondering about what you can do at home to keep up math skills over the summer Here's a great article about exactly that.  Further down there are even a few bullet points of specific things you can do at home.  A big part of math is knowing the basics and feeling confident, building math into daily life sure helps!

Thursday, 14 June 2018

What to see more of what your child is working on right now?  We have done a few online assignments recently that students can show you from their drive at home.  Including these two assignments that have been marked and returned online instead of being printed 1- Social Studies research: Shaping an Identity, 2- Science assignment Wetlands websearch.

Important things coming home tonight
- Swim permission forms.  Please return ASAP
- Summer library program information
- Grade 5 families only: The second set of health pages- parts of the male anatomy.

Car building
- electric car building is well on our way in class.  If you are interested in helping out (especially if you have a glue gun) please let me know if you can join us Tuesday, June 19th at 2:00.
 *Please remember that a current criminal record check on file at the school is needed for any volunteering*

Tuesday, 12 June 2018

In case you are able to drop by the school to see some of the track and field events - here is a copy of the schedule.  We'd love to see you here helping to cheer on our athletes!  Each student has their own copy, highlighted with their 6 choices.  They are also encouraged to write their schedule on their arm to keep it handy throughout the afternoon. 

Students should have appropriate clothing, a labelled water bottle and a bag with their lunch, snacks and clothing layers with them.  Though the school doors will be open everyone is expected to remain outside other than for bathroom breaks.


Time
Track Event
11:00
900m  
11:30
Hurdles (short -  
12:00
100m heats starting with gr 4 girls
12:30
300m timed final  grade 4 girls first
1:00
100m final gr 4 girls first
1:30
600m gr 4 girls first
2:00
4x100m relay grade 4 girls first
2:45
4x300m relay grade 4 girls first

 
Time
Gr 4 girls
Gr. 5 girls
Gr. 6 girls
Gr 4 boys
Gr 5 boys
Gr 6 boys
11:00
Long jump
Ski pole
frisbee
baseball
Break
High jump
11:45
High jump
Long jump
Ski pole
frisbee
baseball
break
12:30
break
High jump
Long jump
Ski pole
frisbee
baseball
1:15
baseball
break
High jump
Long jump
Ski pole
frisbee
2:00
frisbee
Baseball
break
High jump
Long jump
Ski pole
2:45
Ski pole
frisbee
baseball
break
High jump
Long jump

Monday, 11 June 2018

June 11- 15
Please help us to welcome Sigfrid! 
 Sigfrid will be joining our class until the end of the year as an exchange student from Spain.

Monday
- LA assignment "Edit and Improve" is due tomorrow
- please continue studying and practicing at home for our year end math final exam coming up  on Friday, June 22nd

Tuesday -  Edit and Improve due (this assignment takes a dull paragraph and students are responsible for adding details and description to help it shine)

Wednesday - Grade 4-6 track and field  11:00 - 3:00

Thursday - bake sale fundraiser.

Friday 
- Final Spelling test of the school year.  This week's assignment is up to students.  They can choose from the 8 available choices
- Final day for school library books.  All books should be returned please.
- Half day Friday

Tuesday, 5 June 2018

It's June and we are nearing the end of the year.  

As students move up in grade levels year end exams become an expectation.  In our 4/5 class I want to encourage study behaviours, and developing those skills that will help to manage the stress that can come with final exams, by starting small.  

We have had a few unit tests this year.  In the classroom I provide classroom study time, and time to ask questions.  I also give students study guides or notes to help organize the most important parts. These notes, along with practice exams are meant to help guide home study.  I know many of you wonderful parents spend time supporting your child as they reinforce their skills and develop good study habits too.  Thank you for the time that you put in at home!!  

This year we will have only one final exam in math.  It will take place on Friday June 22nd. Today everyone in our class was given a copy of their practice test.  This helps them to preview the types and number of questions.  It also helps them (and you) to know areas that more practice are needed before the exam.

Please take some time to look over it tonight with your child, and to create a study plan with them.  Your support while they are learning to develop their own study skills is so very instrumental both in helping them to manage any stress, and also to help them to feel confident going into the exam.

* If your child will not be in class on the 22nd, it is very important to set up an alternate, earlier date, with me for them to complete it*

Week of June 5th - Due dates for this week

Wednesday:  
- Social online research "shaping an identity" is due
- Reading record is due

Friday: 
- Math weekly #14 due
- Final book orders of the year are due so that they are guaranteed to arrive by the summer.  It's a great time to stock up on some summer reading :)

Also - coming up next Wednesday, June 13th.  Grade 4-6 track and field day!  Student sign up for events will be happening soon.  Let's all hope for a beautiful sunny day.

Monday, 28 May 2018

May 28 - June 1

After a couple of short and busy weeks we are back into our usual routine this week with homework assignments.  Spelling and assignment #4 are due Friday first thingNew reading records (due next Wednesday) have also been handed out.

Grade 5s - Math quiz this coming Friday.  Please use the practice test handed out today to help focus studying.

Monday:  Please keep collecting car building supplies this week.  Once everything is together in a show box or small reusable bag, please send it in.  We'll be beginning to work on these early next week.

Tuesday: Online assignment- Wetland Expert is due. 

Thursday: Reader's Theater presentation due today.

Friday: Half day. 

  • Spelling and assignment #4 due.  
  • Grade 5s - Math Shape and Space test

Friday, 25 May 2018

Image result for grade five science electric car diagram

Electric car building will be starting soon. 
Please start collecting supplies at home to build the body, axles and wheels.  Keep these supplies in a labeled shoe box or small reusable bag (like a Lululemon bag, not a grocery bag size).

Items to collect: at least 2 AA batteries, cardboard or other material for a base, straws and wood skewers for the axles, milk lids or other round lids for wheels.  
The kit (paid for in school fees) contains a battery holder, pulley, motor and motor clip. 

Once supplies have been rounded up and collected they can come to school any time next week.
Have a wonderful weekend!

Wednesday, 23 May 2018

What a wonderful day in the wetlands!  Thank you to all of our lovely parent volunteers, as well as to everyone that helped to pack bags and backpacks so your child had everything that they needed!

I'm trying something new and I'm not sure how it will work with the emails from the blog.  If the picture slideshow won't run, follow this link to just the slideshow of pictures to look through them yourself, or this link directly to the blog.


Tuesday, 22 May 2018




What a fabulous long weekend we had this year!  I hope that you all had a chance to get out and enjoy it :)

This week it is once again a short, and busy, week so there will be one more week off from homework.

*The biggest thing to note is that we will be away all day at the wetlands tomorrow.  We will be leaving right after attendance so everyone needs to arrive promptly with all of their items in their backpack for the day. 

Students have a checklist in their agendas tonight of necessary items, as well as optional things.  Please be aware that we will be outside all day (there is no shelter besides the trees) and there is no running water so please make sure that you send enough to drink for a full day outside in the sun.

Electronic devices are not recommended - wetlands and the woods are not a great place for a phone, so if it comes please make sure that it is safely stowed in the backpack.

* One final thing - pizza day is scheduled for tomorrow but since delivery isn't included it has been changed for our class to Thursday.

                                               Image result for wetlands clipart

Monday, 14 May 2018

I hope all of you enjoyed the wonderful weather for our Mother's Day weekend. 

Your kids worked very hard the last few weeks to create your gifts.  If you are interested in some of the steps that we took along with way please follow the link to see pictures and even a short video. 

Also a big shout out to my dad who volunteered an afternoon to cut all of the wood for the bases of our project, as well as another thanks to all of the other great dads out there that helped their kids to collect the supplies we needed!

For this short week we are taking a holiday from homework.  There will be no weekly assignment, or reading record to complete. Please enjoy the sunshine instead and remember that this Friday is a full professional development day so students are off.  Enjoy the four day weekend.

Wednesday, 9 May 2018

We are looking into Canada's history: The fur trade and Les Coureur des bois.  Here are some links to good information to use in the class or at home.

Prezi Link (fur trade)

Monday, 7 May 2018

Happy Monday!  I hope that you've all been enjoying the sunshine and spending lots of time outside like I have :)

Here are the important things to keep track of this week:

Tuesday - hammers and small nails (about 15) if possible are needed.  We'll be completing our project later this week and all supplies will be returned to you by the weekend.

Wednesday - Reading records are due  (signed by parents please)

Friday - Math weekly #13 is due. 
Also, this Friday is a full student day in exchange for the full day off that students get May 18th while teachers have a full day of professional development.


Just 2 things to note and keep track of in the back of your mind:

1 - the electric car sets have been delivered and towards the end of the month we'll start building.  Students will also need 2 double A batteries, something for their car base, some wheels (milk jug lids are a good size) and assorted other things that they may like for building.

2 - May 23rd we will be going out to Middle Lake for our Wonderful Wetlands Field Trip!  This is a full day event and we need at least 5 volunteers to join us and help to work with a small student group.  Please let me know if you are interested, need more information, or can definitely join us. 

Monday, 30 April 2018

Week of April 30-May 4

* We will be doing a light building project in class and we are very much in need of any sandpaper that you can send in by Wednesday to help us out.  Small nails (like finishing or similar) as well as hammers will also be needed next week*

Monday - new reading records have been handed out and are due back next Wednesday, May 9th

Tuesday - all final book talk presentation to be completed.  If you haven't heard your child's book talk yet, please have them practice it for you :)

Wednesday - Hats on for Mental Health Day

Thursday

Friday - Spelling practice assignment #4 is due completed.  Spelling test in the morning.  T

Tuesday, 24 April 2018

Building complete circuits Tuesday in Science. 
1- Can you first make the light turn on?
2- Can you make more than one light turn on at the same time?
3- Can you find a way to build your circuit so that each bulbs glows equally brightly?


Monday, 23 April 2018

Week of April 23 - 27

A new reading record will be going home later this week but during class reading for now students are encouraged to try a different genre of book (like a non-fiction) or to buddy read since they are not responsible to complete an individual reading record.

Monday/Tuesday: 
Book talks  (script and presentations) are due by Friday.  This is the second time this year that we have done this project.  Checklists and rubrics were handed out early last week.  Help at home to practice the presentations and be sure all parts (from the checklist) are included is much appreciated!

Wednesday:
Grade 5 - final needles

Thursday:
1:00 - Electric car presentation.  Lots of fabulous tips and ideas for when we built our electric cars next month will be shared during this presentation brought to us by George Pactirik from Science is...

Friday:

  • Math weekly #12 due
  • Book talks due (ready to be presented in front of the class)
  • Grade 5s- chocolate orders to support our music program are due
  • Period 4: Guest speaker to present on The Stoney Way of Life

Since spring break we have had a number of conversations about start times in our classroom.  There are a few students arriving consistently late each day.  This impacts everyone in our classroom and has also been causing difficulties for our specialist teachers because I can't accurately take attendance and send students to their first class until everyone trickles in. 

Could you have a short discussion at home about this?  Ask your child to reflect on if they are making it to class, prepared with all of their supplies, each morning.  Are they making it to the next class in an amount of time that is appropriate for this transition?

The doors open to come into the hallway and rooms at 8:30.
Classes start at 8:45 each morning with announcements.  Everyone should be in their class by that time at the latest. The classroom door will be closed at that time as well.

Thank you for your support with this at home as well!  If you have any questions, please let me know.


Friday, 20 April 2018

Did you know that electricity and magnetism are related?  You can use electricity from a D cell battery to create a magnetic field around a simple nail!  Voila!  An electromagnet.


Monday, 16 April 2018

Week of April 16-20

There's lots of busy and great things happening in class this week :)

Monday
- new spelling lists (#11) have been handed out to study.  As well as studying, this week's homework assignment is spelling assignment #3 is due Friday morning.

Tuesday 
 Math review quiz.  This quiz will be the same length and type of questions as on the study quiz sent home the beginning of last week.  These skills in adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing are key concepts for continuing to grow in math each year.
- ZAP interactive presentation about electrical safety @1:00

Wednesday
-Novel study questions for chapters 1-6 are due
- Novel study assignments are due.  Grade 4: Cause and effect.  Grade 5: Characterization

Thursday
- Reading Records are due.  Please sign these if you have had a chance to look at the completeness of your child's answers.  How much detail, as well as how specific their answers are, help to show greater understanding of the novels they are choosing to read.

Friday
- Spelling test and homework are due
- Flashlight Friday!  Our windows have some new coverings to add a little more darkness to our classroom and we're going to try again for another Flashlight Friday.  Students are invited to bring either a pillow or blanket to make a cozy reading nest, along with their own flashlight, for a period of sustained reading.

Tuesday, 10 April 2018

A few quick notes and reminders:

If it hasn't made it back to school yet, please send portfolios back in so that we can continue to fill them with the rest of our learning this year.

Also - for French class students need to collect the clothes from home that they will need to do their fashion shows next Tuesday.

Tomorrow afternoon we will also have a school wide lock down practice.  We have talked about this and practiced it together in the classroom this week.  If this conversation comes up at home please help to assure your child that, just like fire drills, these practices are just to help us be prepared :)   If you have any questions yourself, please let me know.

Finally - I know a lot of you are just as involved in studying as your child at this grade level.  Thank you for all of the help and support while your child reviews adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing to be prepared for their review quiz next Tuesday.

Monday, 9 April 2018

Welcome back from what I hope was a restful and fun filled spring break! 

This week:

Monday - 
Handed out today is a practice quiz for math (review of adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing).  This is to help with studying at home but should not be the only questions practiced to be ready.  A few questions of practice each day would be great studying!  The quiz will be next Tuesday.

Tuesday - 
new reading records will be handed out (due back next Thursday)

Wednesday - 
Electrical safety quiz: this short quiz deals with how to be safe when handling electricity. This needs to be completed by all students before they move forward to using electricity in our labs.  We have watched videos and discussed what makes the things happening in a picture unsafe.  Preparation for this quiz will be mainly done in the classroom. Questions that could be found on this quiz will be basic things like

  • Is it safe to use electrical appliances around water?
  • Should you use electrical tape or masking take to hold wires to a battery?
  • What could happen if you put something metal into an electrical plug?
Thursday - 
Nothing due - but keep reviewing to be ready for the math quiz next week

Friday - 
Math weekly #11 due

Friday, 23 March 2018


Image result for spring clipart


Have a happy spring break.  Safe travels to everyone that plan to get away as well!

Thanks very much to all the parents and students that made it in for our meetings.  I hope that you enjoy looking through your child's portfolio with them and exploring the learning and growing that they have been doing! Once you have had a chance to explore everything, please tuck this important binder back into their backpack for safe keeping and return it to school as soon as possible. 
I'll see everyone back here Monday, April 9th.

Monday, 19 March 2018

Monday, March 19.

Spring break starts for students this Thursday.  Because of our shortened and busy week there will be no weekly homework assignment.

Tuesday: Reading Records are due completed.  Science fair is taking place in the gym.

Wednesday: Parent-teacher-student interviews from 5:00-8:00.  Please respect everyone's time by arriving promptly and being mindful of the next appointment.  Taking your child's portfolio home after interviews to spend more time going through it is encouraged :)

Thursday: Last student day this week.  Happy spring break.  Classes return April 9th.
                   Parent-teacher-student interviews from 4:00-7:00

Friday:  No school for students. Parent-teacher-student interviews from 8:30-12:00

Monday, 12 March 2018

Happy Monday!  I hope everyone has been able to get out and enjoy the sunshine the last few days :)

I received an email Friday afternoon that our latest book orders have shipped so those should be arriving the end of this week or early next week.

Monday: students have a new reading record (to be completed by next Tuesday)  and they are doing spelling list #10

Tuesday: tomorrow is Smoothie day for our class.  Our foods students will be treating everyone to a small homemade smoothie.  Yum yum!

Friday:  Spelling test for list #10, assignment #1 on the list to be handed in at that time.
               Social - final tribes research to be completed.

* Coming next week Parent-student-teacher interviews:  Wednesday and Thursday evening as well as Friday morning.  By now you have already received confirmation of your time.  If for some reason you aren't able to make your booked appointment time, please let me know.  Thanks!  *

Friday, 9 March 2018

We are looking for some volunteers at the library.  If you are interested and can help out during the school book fair, please read and follow the instructions below.

Thanks and have a great weekend everyone!
___________________________________________________
Hello everyone,
Our Scholastic Festival du Livre is coming soon. 
March 21 & 22, 2018
This is a wonderful way to add to your french (and some english) home library as well as our schools. We can not do this without you. Please help by volunteering your time to make this a success.
Volunteer opportunities for "LGMS Scholastic Festival du Livre" are now open.
Please click on the following web link (or copy it into your web browser if clicking doesn't work) to go to the signup sheet:
To sign up just follow the instructions on the page. It only takes a few seconds to do.
Thank you for volunteering!

Alanna McLeod
LGMS Library Tech

Tuesday, 6 March 2018

Just a quick reminder that we completed our final Chemistry lab today about CO2.  All groups had time after that to also complete their study notes to help them study from home.  Here are the links again to all four group's study notes.  You can see and use any of these to assist with studying at home :)

Study Notes (4 copies)

Chemistry unit test is Friday.

Monday, 5 March 2018

Happy Monday!

This week in the evenings students should be preparing for and studying for their Chemistry unit test this Friday.  This test will include some vocabulary definitions, some multiple choice questions and some long answer questions.  Some questions will be basic fact questions, while other will look for students to show their understanding of our science concepts.  To use what they know to answer new questions.  Ex: don't just know know what surface tension means, but explain how it can be used by something like a water strider to hold itself up.

Wednesday - By Wednesday students should have completed their second aboriginal tribe research.  This can be worked on from home using the links on the Social page of the blog to collect information in the questions booklet.

Thursday: Reading Records are due

Friday: Math weekly #10 is due, Chemistry Unit test

* Book orders are also coming home tonight.  To ensure that books arrive before spring break I'm asking that they are returned by this Thursday.  Also - the online ordering system is even easier for parents now, you don't need to send the form back to me but I still appreciate a note or email to know to look for your order online :)   *
       

Friday, 2 March 2018

As we are learning about traditions of our first nation people we have been exploring some of their wonderful contributions to art.  After learning about the legend and idea behind dream catchers today we began building our own.  The results are already looking beautiful!  Make sure to ask your child how theirs is turning out.   Thanks also to Ms. Wilson that joined us to help out with the difficult center webs :)


Just a reminder that there will be a Chemistry Unit test next Friday

Students worked with groups today to use their notes and get a lot of information into their study notes but they may not be 100% complete yet.  Feel free to look at and use any of the group's information to help prepare for their test.  If their group is still missing any information they also have edit writes to add information onto their own slides from home as long as they are logged in.  Page 8 (the properties of CO2) should not yet be filled in because we will do that lab Tuesday.

Thanks for any help studying at home too!

Link to Study notes

Wednesday, 28 February 2018

Next Friday we will be finishing our Chemistry Unit and completing a final exam.  We don't do a lot of true exams at this grade level but studying skills are very important and I want everyone to work at developing them.  To that end I always provide either a study guide or a practice test ahead of time but parent help with studying is much appreciated!!

For science it's very important to use the notes and work that we do in class. Unfortunately, Googling science terms usually find information that is written at a much higher reading and understanding level that we are working on in elementary :)

To help - students will also be working in study group to find and put all of their information into one online location.  This can be extra useful for you as parents to use for asking questions.


and see the study guide handed out in class today:

Tuesday, 27 February 2018


Today in class we were learning about and exploring surface tension of water.  Take a look at some more pictures and videos here. 
Related to that, tonight's science challenge is to get a paperclip to float unassisted on water.  Photographic evidence can be emailed to me:  tina.blackwell@crps.ca

Related image


Tomorrow is Pink Shirt Day at LGMS!

Students are encouraged to wear a pink shirt to show support against bullying.  If you don't know much about the origin of this important day take a look at this video of an interview with one of the boys from Nova Scotia who got it all started.  It's amazing sometimes how a small idea can become something so big and powerful, all because of compassion and kindness!

There will also be toonie pink treats being sold by our We Day group at lunch time tomorrow.  Help support the cause - wear PINK Wednesday, Feb. 28th.

Monday, 26 February 2018

I hope that everyone had a great and restful week.  Personally I'm very happy that we seem to be moving into some nicer weather :)

Today new Reading Records (due next Thursday), as well as this week's spelling (list #9) were handed out.

Tues: Science Fair meeting

Wednesday: Pink shirt day (along with a twoonie for a pink treat fundraiser)

Friday: Spelling assignments this week are student choice.  They can choose from the 8 spelling assignments available.

Friday, 16 February 2018




LGMS Carnival D'hiver was a huge hit!  Perfect temperatures, great snow and a lot of fun.  Thanks so much to everyone that donated supplies and came out to volunteer as well!!
Want to see more great action shots from this afternoon?  Follow this link to see all of the pictures and videos from today.

Have a great week off and I'll see everyone back Monday, Feb.26th.

Wednesday, 14 February 2018

Just a few quick reminders for the end of this week:

Tomorrow: 

  • Math weekly #9 is due
  • Glass jars are needed for our crystal making in Chemistry
Friday - Winter Carnival:
  • students are invited to dress in traditional French style by wearing jeans, plaid, toques and sashes
  • 10:30 Bilingual music presentation
  • 12:00 - 3:00 Winter Carnival activities (student need to dress for the outdoors and have a labelled mug for hot chocolate)

Monday, 12 February 2018

Happy Monday everyone!  Today is a busy week filled with all kinds of fun - and just a quick reminder that due to Family day, plus teacher's convention, there is no school next week for students.

For the last few weeks in math we have been focusing on our large number multiplication skills. Grade fours do 3 digit by 1 digit and grade fives two by two digit multiplication. This week we will be doing the assessment of those skills.  If you haven't yet done so, please spend some time in the evening asking your child to show you their prefered strategies.  (if you need more information about these go to the Math section of our blog and take a look at our Muy Importante strategies booklets - these help to explain the steps)

Today: Our final gymnastics class was today.  Thank you very much to the wonderful coaches who taught us so much!  If you'd like to see the last set of pictures and videos please follow the link.

Wednesday:  Our Valentine's party will take place in our classroom last period.  (please see the letter on the blog, and sent home, last week for the details)

Thursday: Math weekly # 9 is due.  This is a day earlier than normal to make sure that all work is complete before our winter carnival Friday. 
We will also be making our crystals in Science Thursday.  Please send in your glass jars before then.

Friday:  Students are encouraged to dress in plaid and wear toques and sashes in the Quebecois tradition as we celebrate La Carnival D'hiver at LGMS.  At 10:30 we will have a bilingual presentation in the gym that includes music, dance and storytelling by: Francofolie.  In the afternoon students will participate in a variety of activities.  Most will take place outside so appropriate clothing is very important!  Students are also invited to bring a labelled mug for hot chocolate.

Feb. 19-23:  No school for students

Friday, 9 February 2018

Happy Friday! 

Over the weekend if you happen to make some spaghetti, or finish a jar of pickles, please clean out that glass jar to send in with your child.  We'll be making crystals the end of next week and these jars will be the perfect home for them to grow in.

Also - I am still very much in need of a parent volunteer to help run our braiding station for Winter Carnival next Friday.  It would be be starting at about 12:45 and running until the end of the day.  PLEASE send me an email if you know that you can help us out.

Monday, 5 February 2018

The week of Feb.5th


Today we had our second last gymnastics period (next Monday will be our last class).  If you would like to take a look at today's pictures, please follow this link.

Due Thursday: Reading Records. If possible, parents please sign these to show that you have seen them. 
Due Friday: Spelling and assignment #8

Still looking for yarn donations and volunteers for next Friday afternoon for our winter carnival*

Coming home tonight - please find the matching letter to the one below about Valentine's day in our classroom. Any questions - please ask :)



Thursday, 1 February 2018

Image result for pajama day
Just a reminder that tomorrow (Friday, Feb.2) is our PJ day reward for reading to the roof.  Everyone is invited to wear their coziest pajamas and bring a stuffy to share their day with.

Tuesday, 30 January 2018

Want to see what we were doing today in class?  For science the challenge was to find a way to separate two liquids after they had been mixed.  Unless they make layers, this is very difficult or impossible!